Social Media for Schools: Proven Storytelling Strategies & Ideas to Celebrate Your Students & Staff - While Keeping Your Sanity

[00:01] SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Principal Center Radio, bringing you the best in professional practice.

[00:06] Announcer:

Here's your host, director of the Principal Center and champion of high performance instructional leadership, Dustin Bader. Welcome, everyone, to Principal Center Radio.

[00:15] SPEAKER_02:

I'm your host, Justin Bader, and I'm honored to welcome to the program Andrea Ferrero. Andrea is a global educator with more than a decade of K-12 experience. Looking for tools to break the cycle of poverty and empower learning communities, Andrea stepped into the world of financial literacy and ed tech, and she's the founder of Pockets Change, an organization dedicated to inspiring financial capability through the universal language of hip hop pedagogy.

[00:42] Announcer:

And now, our feature presentation.

[00:44] SPEAKER_02:

Andrea, welcome to Principal Center Radio.

[00:46] SPEAKER_00:

Oh, thanks. I'm so glad to be here.

[00:47] SPEAKER_02:

So take us into the origin of Pockets Change and your life's work. What did you see as the need for financial literacy and financial capability among our young people?

[01:00] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, definitely. So I started off a little over a decade ago as a classroom teacher. And one of the things that my kids always got really excited about in school was having the classroom store and creating business and being able to run that. But then that practical application of learning about finances, they struggle when they get outside of the classroom. And financial literacy, finance education is not really a part of our mainstream education. And so I started looking for ways and tools to really bring that into the classroom and started exploring finance.

[01:31]

And I met my co-founder, Pamela Kapalad, in California. We started teaching financial camps during the summer. And from that, We really had this conversation around why didn't we get this as kids? And why are the communities that matter most to us not getting finance education? And that led us to the creation of Pockets Change. We really married her experience in finance.

[01:52]

She's been a certified financial planner for over a decade. And my experience in education, we brought the two together to evolve and create Pockets Change.

[01:59] SPEAKER_02:

And it's interesting because typically only wealthier people work with certified financial planners or investment advisors. But you're taking that expertise from the financial planning world and connecting it with students from the days before they really even have much money to deal with. Why do we not teach this in school? I mean, we can all think back to our K-12 experience and think, well, I learned some pretty obscure stuff. I've learned some stuff that I'm not sure I've used since then. But hardly any of us learned anything even the basics of financial literacy.

[02:32]

Why is that? Why do we not cover this already in K-12?

[02:36] SPEAKER_00:

That's a really good question. And it's one that actually a lot of teachers end up asking us in different ways. I was just at a teacher training that we had here in New York City this summer. And one of the teachers said to me, you know, this isn't just a life skill, it's a life necessity. And why didn't I get this when I was younger? And at the same time, she was also nervous about teaching the topic herself.

[02:58]

And so I think that's one of the big reasons that we don't see it in schools is there's some hesitation around the topic of money. Money is still one of the big taboos that's out there. There was actually a study done a few years back that showed that parents are more comfortable talking to their kids about sex, drugs, and terrorism than talking with them about money. So it's really getting past that taboo and feeling comfortable and confident in exploring the topic and being a learner with the students. And that's something that we really work to support schools and administrators and teachers in doing that.

[03:28] SPEAKER_02:

I think that taboo angle is really powerful in understanding. So many of our norms in education are these unspoken things. If we think about the practical value of learning about plate tectonics, I was a science teacher. I'm sure everybody was supposed to at least learn about plate tectonics. which, you know, have relatively little to do with, with day-to-day life. They're still important.

[03:50]

I have to say they're important. And, uh, you know, probably a lot of us learned to play pickleball in PE class or learned about the teapot dome scandal, which, you know, all good, but I can't think of anything that is more relevant to students' long-term success in life. You know, something we deal with every single day, uh, is almost completely untaught. So it's no surprise that you've found a warm reception to this work. But it's also very interesting to me that you've rooted it in principles of hip hop education. Tell us a little bit about the hip hop angle.

[04:24] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, definitely. So how that evolved is really to get at the personal values and identity that are so much a part of our relationship with money. You know, we've had a workshop where I had a six-year-old come in and she knew we were going to be digging into money. And she said, oh, man, I'm bad at money. She's six years old and already has all of these emotions around the topic. And there have been studies that have shown that we actually do form our money habits that inform the rest of our adult life as early as seven years old.

[04:51]

So we want to make sure that we do start having these conversations young. And really looking at how we relate to money, how it's a part of our life, what our relationship is with it. And that's about going deeper than facts or formulas. That's why I think it's so crucial to make sure that it's coming across the grade levels. And that's where we bring in the hip hop pedagogy. Because it's really a way of exploring your personal relationship with money.

[05:17]

What's your self-identity? How do you communicate with others? And then how do you bring all of that together as you're looking at spending, saving, earning, and really feel creative and fun with it. Because money sometimes doesn't feel approachable, and what we find is that when it is happening in classrooms, maybe it's counting coins, but counting coins isn't going to lead to being a conscious consumer. Or if you're learning about the compound interest formula, that's not necessarily going to make you a better saver or to make you feel more confident and capable in creating a savings habit. So that's where the hip-hop pedagogy comes in.

[05:50]

It's really about understanding yourself, understanding your community and your resources, and then bringing that into your relationship with money.

[05:58] SPEAKER_02:

It almost seems like there's an emotional component that we miss when we just talk about interest rates and investment vehicles and taxes and things like that, and the identity and community component. What are some of the things that students discover about themselves or discover about their relationship with money as a result of these programs?

[06:17] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I think one of the fun things that the kids learn is what's your money personality? And it's actually a free quiz that we have online just on pocketschange.com forward slash personality. And so they discover what their relationship is with money. Do they tend to be more proactive? Do they tend to be more reactive?

[06:35]

Do they tend to think about the money that's already in their hand now and how they're going to be using it? Or are they thinking about how to use the money before it even gets into their hand? And you'd be surprised. It's much like our other forms of personality. Those get expressed at a really young age. So I think that's one of the big exciting takeaways from just stepping into the workshop for the first time that all of our kids and adults take away.

[06:56] SPEAKER_02:

Well, I'm fascinated by this idea of emotion and identity. And I know there are lots of organizations out there interested in promoting financial literacy. Talk to us about some of the other organizations that you've worked with and what approach they've taken and the curriculum you've developed.

[07:11] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So we really do want to support schools and having access to open educational resources. So we've partnered with several large banks as well as the FDIC and really taking a new look at their curriculum, getting away from just teaching formulas and really making it more fun, more interactive, more project based. And that's bringing in some of the elements of our hip hop pedagogy. And so we've helped them like create the money smart curriculum, which is available online for K through 12 and it's free to download. We also have our materials online through our site where you can download free lessons too.

[07:45]

So it's really about creating access and opportunity to make sure that we have the tools to really integrate this into schools across the country.

[07:52] SPEAKER_02:

So, Andrea, I'm thinking about the diversity of our public school populations, where we have middle class families, families with tons of money, families with next to no money. And I wonder how you approach this challenge of just the different situations that students are in, you know, in the thinking and decision making that they have to do about how to think about money, how to relate to money, just based on that socioeconomic diversity.

[08:17] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, for sure. We do have a lot of experience working in diverse communities. And we work with schools, the foster care system, nonprofit groups across the country, mostly in New York and California right now. And so we do have a lot of experience in that. One thing that I'd say is that often it's the term ends up being financial literacy. But financial literacy is just about building an understanding, a basic awareness.

[08:39]

It doesn't lead to capability, feeling confident and capable and going out there and taking action. And so we really like to emphasize that it's about building financial resilience for yourself, building capability. And that's going to be applicable for all of us. That's looking at your individual situation and your resources and your access and starting to build financial resilience so that you can navigate obstacles that you have to reaching the goals that you have in mind and that you can navigate a complex financial world. And one thing that I think really sets us apart in our curriculum and in our programming is is that we also have very candid conversations. I think that's how we address that taboo in money too, because there are predatory systems out there and there are a lot of obstacles to reaching your goals.

[09:23]

And we want to be frank about that when kids are having questions. And I think once you open the door to those conversations, you're going to get some really great questions. We do every day from our students. And it really allows us to better support them in having access and opportunity for reaching their individual goals. And those individual goals are just as diverse as all of our kids across the country. And I think that it's really important to have those conversations so that we can start to work together towards really trying to address the racial wealth gap, which is a big part of finance education, too.

[09:55] SPEAKER_02:

So Andrea, I wanted to touch on this idea of predatory financial products because most of our audience of principals, teachers, as middle class people, often we don't get exposed to some of just the terrible offers that are out there that really we would have to describe as predatory that just kind of take advantage of people's situation. offer them, you know, quote unquote, products and services in the finance realm that really just are predatory. What have you seen that's out there that students need to be made aware of? And what are some strategies for helping students evaluate, you know, a banking product or a credit product to make sure that it's not going to be a raw deal for them?

[10:40] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, definitely. So I think I'd break it into kind of two categories to start with. And these are the two common topics that we address with all of with all of our kids. We really start in middle school, then go up from there and having these conversations around banking systems as well as credit systems. For the younger kids, we will go into banking, but not so much the credit. So some things that I think are really important to be aware of for predatory systems is really digging into the details.

[11:05]

There are a lot of financial products out there where it sounds like a good offer. The marketing is really strong. But as you dig into the actual interest rates, they're extremely high And for a banking product, in particular, I think some of the things to watch out for is charges, just like a maintenance fee charge, other fees that can be hidden within the account. A lot of our kids that we've seen have challenges, you know, they're opening their first checking account and the products that they're being offered, it has a high monthly fee. It has a fee if you dip below a certain amount. It has a fee every time you're swiping your card rather than that fee being charged onto the vendor that you're swiping the card with.

[11:47]

So it's really digging into those details and feeling comfortable not actually signing on the dotted line until you understand what those details are. and feeling comfortable knowing that there'll be other places to look at products too, that you don't have to just go with one place to pick something out. And then on the credit side, the credit system is a whole beast. And a lot of the rules within the credit system that actually make up our credit scores are very contradictory. So we actually dig into that and look at those contradictions. And we have a critical conversation about what that means for your decision making and being aware of what that looks like in your life.

[12:22]

And through that process and actually looking at your credit report, some of the predatory practices that are out there, especially for students that are just stepping out the door on their own, are credit cards, again, with very high interest rates, with annual fees, sometimes with monthly compounding fees, like all of those things, again, digging into the details so that you really have a better sense of what's being offered. And that comes into two On the credit side, when you're making big purchases for the first time, it's also really important to look at like private school loans can be very predatory. Getting your first car, car loans the same. So we have a lot of resources around that. And there's also advocacy organizations that we've partnered with to support getting access and information for answering those kind of questions. One that I really love is the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

[13:14]

They have a lot. They have an online database where you can go in and really have access to answering those questions. But there's certainly other great advocacy groups as well.

[13:23] SPEAKER_02:

I think that's so important because, you know, we tell students, you know, you need to build your credit, you need to go to college, you've got to look into all these things. And yet we don't realize that young people are being, you know, flattered with these offers that, you know, that treat them like they're grown, that treat them like they're, you know, ready to make these decisions. And, you know, and hopefully they are, but often there is some sort of catch that is in the fine print. It really is pretty remarkable. So talk to us about the curriculum, the programs that you offer, and how you work with schools to develop students' financial capability. Not just literacy, I love that, but actual financial capability.

[14:01] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So when we're coming into a school, we're often doing workshop series where we start with your personal relationship money, finding your money personality, and then we go into our take on budgeting, which I think it's really important to look at your personal values when it comes to budgeting. We don't just say, you know, put 20% here, put 30% there. It's really about understanding what's important to you. So we start with the basics. What are the things that you need for your life?

[14:26]

For some of us, that might be a computer. I need my laptop. That's something that I have put the money into because I need that for my day-to-day. For others, it might be clothes. It might be school supplies. Um, it might be a certain kind of, you know, healthy food, something that's, you know, works for your basics, your day to day.

[14:43]

And then we go from that into our details. Those are the things that really feed us emotionally. Like we were chatting a little bit earlier about coffee. Like I don't need coffee, but there are days where I just need coffee. And for me, that really feeds me emotionally. It, it, it gives me that little pickup.

[14:59]

And for others, like we've had middle schoolers where their details are hot Cheetos and they want them to keep, they want me to make space for that in their budget. But that's often the thing that we think about as being what should be cut out. And that's what we worry about having money conversations about. Oh, I'm going to be told that that's a waste of money, that I shouldn't spend money there, that that's expendable. And it's really about creating space there because we have limited willpower and there's a lot of science around that. And so you want to feed yourself emotionally and take care of that.

[15:25]

That's that self-care piece so that you don't lose money into what we have this other quadrant. It's really four boxes. is the nothing because that's those things that you don't even remember buying you know when you're tired when you're hungry and you're on your way home and you end up picking up fast food because you the idea of cooking you know you're not right you don't have the supplies or You know, maybe you picked up that coffee and you end up getting the Danish too because it's been a long day. The things that you don't really have a story for, that you don't remember. So it's really identifying those things so that you can repurpose that money. And that takes us into what I think all of the kids get most excited about is the yes box, which practically just means savings.

[16:04]

And that opens our conversations to talking about savings, talking about your future self. There's this really interesting research study that actually showed when doing brain scans, when we think about our future self, we think about it as a different person, which often explains like that, you know, that moment when you're like, oh, I can stay up an extra two hours tonight. It's not going to hurt future me. And we tend to kind of do ourselves dirty in the future in a sense. And not really, because we think about that person as maybe that person's going to be more prepared. That person's going to take care of it.

[16:34]

That future self is separate from us. So we really want to start to create a savings habit where we're taking care of our future self And that's where that saying that often gets used as kind of generic financial advice, pay yourself first. It's really thinking about paying your future self, setting aside money and having a yes box, something where you can say yes to opportunities because you have some savings. And it might feel silly at first to start there. We have kids where maybe they're going to save $2 a week. And that might seem silly because it's a small amount of money, but it's creating a savings habit.

[17:03]

So then as your income increases, as you're earning more, And you're working on that side of things that you already have that savings habit in place that it's already part of your practice when it comes to your finances. So that's some of the basics that we start with. And then we grow from there into really looking at earning and how entrepreneurship and negotiation skills can be used in different ways to reach your goals and digging into personal strengths. And the kids across ages will actually create a personal pitch based on something that they want to do. We had a group of middle schoolers two summers ago that created a dog walking business together. And that's now been running for the two summers, last two summers.

[17:41]

And they're going into their third summer and they just went and bought colored leashes because they're going to be adding extras for next summer. So it's really exciting to see how they've taken these ideas and run with it to create multiple streams of income for themselves.

[17:54] SPEAKER_02:

So Andrea, if people are interested in your curriculum or possibly booking a workshop or just reaching out and getting in touch with you, where's the best place for them to go online to learn more?

[18:02] SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so you can check us out at pocketschange.com. And we have right on there, you can click on the button that says book a workshop and get in touch with us. Also, feel free to reach out and ask us questions. We're always happy to share resources and tools and see where we can team up together.

[18:16] SPEAKER_02:

Well, Andrea, thanks so much for joining me on Principal Center Radio.

[18:18] SPEAKER_00:

It was great to be here. Thanks so much for having me.

[18:21] Announcer:

Thanks for listening to Principal Center Radio. For more great episodes, subscribe on our website at principalcenter.com slash radio.